The following interview, originally published in Italian in the current (third) issue of the magazine Garageland, was conducted during the preparational stages for new edition of Gavin Watson’s classic photo book Skins, which has since come out on ACC Art Books. The original 1994 edition was printed by ST Publishing, which was run by George Marshall, author of the seminal Spirit of ‘69 – A Skinhead Bible (1991).
Although Skins remains his best-known publication, Watson is also the author of other volumes, such as the recent highly successful Oh What Fun We Had! (2019), which focuses on his group of friends from High Wycombe, an ethnically and subculturally inclusive crew.
Watson’s work is important for a number of reasons: firstly, it’s an insider’s view of the scene and therefore of great documentary interest. Secondly, looking at his pictures we can follow the evolution of the crew and their changing preoccupations and interests from the punk and skinhead era all the way to the rave years. Another significant trait of Watson’s work is the proximity of his hometown of Wycombe to London. As those who live in suburban areas know, being close to a big city can be an advantage – you can see a lot of gigs if you travel a relatively short distance, for example. But the suburbs are still the suburbs, and as such they’re inevitably cut off from many positive features that the big city has to offer.
It was with this in mind that I asked Gavin Watson to comment on some photos from his archive. These aren’t necessarily his best or best-known pictures – rather, I chose photos that would allow me to ask him about certain topics.
Flavio Frezza
MADE IN BRITAIN
In 1983, Tim Roth had just given a taste of his talent as Trevor in Made in Britain. I love that film, and his monologue on the British educational and correctional systems is impressive. Did you guys appreciate Made in Britain – did it matter to you that the film offered a very partial insight into the skinhead subculture?
Made in Britain is probably the only piece of media to tell an honest story about the reality of what it was like to be intelligent and at the bottom of the pile. Alan Clarke was a brave director. Nothing like Made in Britain was made until This Is England. Made in Britain definitely made a big impact compared to propaganda hit-pieces like American History X and Romper Stomper.
GOTH
By many accounts, there were frequent fights between members of different subcultures in the 80s. Your photos feature punks, goths and even teds and b-boys. Perhaps this clash between subcultures was mainly a London affair and didn’t affect the kids of the neighbouring towns?
It was mostly made-up bullshit. All rebellious youth had a connection. They were no normies, so we all tended to be at the same gigs and there was a lot of crossover. It was all about following the music. In the early days mods would get a lot of shit for some reason. But by the mid to late 80s we mostly all got on. Anyway, the goth girls were attractive, so there was that.
LEATHER JACKET
Nev looks fairly punkish here. You lot seemed to mix skinhead and punk styles quite a bit. Was that a common trend back then, or it was more typical of small towns with mixed scenes?
Neville used to do acting for TV and most of those photos of him are from acting jobs. Or I would just be bored and get him to wear my girlfriend Kelley’s jacket. Neville wouldn’t have been seen dead in a leather jacket when he went out. But yeah, who doesn’t love a good-looking leather jacket? They weren’t worn by any skinheads I knew, though, just our punk mates.
BETWEEN WYCOMBE AND LONDON
Was this photo taken in London or Wycombe?
That was a taken in a new estate called Lance Way, built just above my road in Wycombe.
Did you lot spend most of your time in Wycombe and went to London only for events, or did you hang out in London more regularly?
Yeah, we mainly stayed in Wycombe unless there was a gig in London. Or we’d go up to Carnaby Street. I was in London a lot more because my relatives lived there, so I was down there every few weeks. I moved back there when I was 16 and spent the next years, till 25, going back to Wycombe at weekends.
VANDALISM
Your brother and your old friend Symond Lawes are working hard to tear down that wall. Vandalism can be a fun pastime, especially for teenagers. Where were you when you took this photo?
We did most of our vandalism in abandoned factories and buildings. In this case, we were in a disused wood depot called Bambergers. It’s near the railway, not far from where we lived.
ELECTRONIC MUSIC
This is one of my favourites. You and your brother seem very interested in what Mr B is doing with his boombox and Boss sampler. The photo makes me think that your interest in electronic music may have started here.
I was deeply into electronic music from 12 onwards: Mike Oldfield, Jon and Vangelis, Oxygene. Barry was years ahead of the curve, making techno in his room in the mid-80s. He would come round our house and play us his latest creations. Real shame he never put them out there.
GEORGE MARSHALL
George Marshall was very important to us who became skinheads in the 90s. I had contact with him only by correspondence, but anyone who has known him personally says that he’s a kind and nice person. What was the Wycombe kids’ experience with him?
I only met George when we did the book together. He came to London and stayed at my flat in Highgate and chose the images for Skins. He was an interesting person who knew what he liked and didn’t like. I appreciated that. And he wasn’t a fan of curry if I remember right, haha.
TREASURE ISLE
Nev looks pretty smart here. He also seems very focused on his research of ska or maybe reggae singles. I wonder if you guys developed a deeper interest in the original skinhead culture growing up?
Yes, Neville and Lee became traditional skin obsessed and would spend a lot of their time searching for rare ska. They became DJs and would play around the pubs in London.
That photo was taken in Camden Town around 1987.
ROCK AGAINST COMMUNISM
The kid who’s with Nev here is wearing a Skrewdriver T-shirt. Now, Skrewdriver and Rock Against Communism also attracted skinheads who had no interest in either racism or politics. I believe this can be explained by the fact that the 2 Tone scene was pretty much dead by that point and Oi music was going nowhere fast. What‘s your point of view? Since you were a racially inclusive crew and some RAC lyrics are quite extreme, I guess you lot didn’t pay too much importance to the words?
My thinking was always that skinheads went where skinheads were. As soon as the ska revival of the late 80s came along and a lot of the right-wing skins abroad started to learn about the roots of skinhead, a huge portion of those skins became traditional skinheads. Politics is exhausting, and to me it’s a music style. It was never like the mainstream media portrayed street life. It was always about comradery and music. All that contrived propaganda went over my head, just wasn’t interested. Still not, it’s extremely boring.
RAVING
Finally, it’s 1989 and here we are at a rave. If I’m not mistaken, when you first became interested in acid house and those kinds of parties, you were still skins. What attracted you to that scene? I know a number of ex-skinheads and ex-casuals were going to raves.
When you get taken up on a rogue wave, there’s not much choice in going with the flow. The skinhead thing was over. Nothing on the horizon except adulthood. Rave came along and anyone that was looking for a release from the bullshit that was going on at the time were drawn to them. It never felt like I was making decisions at the time. I was taken up on it all, and again I loved electronica and old 70s disco and dancing, something that had been a bit lost towards the end of our skinhead days. It was a massive release: skinheads, yardies, casuals, normies – it all became irrelevant.
The new edition of Skins is available from ACC Art Books.
Garageland is an Italian-language magazine about subcultures and music. The third issue is available now from Hellnation Libri and Crombie Media.
Creases Like Knives 